Episode 36: Standing Out
Here it is. The attention economy is alive and well and that’s why we wanted to chew on some ideas around how to stand out in a world of plenty. Ideas that go beyond the obvious methods – ok, we forget some of the more obvious methods like being excellent on some dimension that customers value, or will come to value. Our bad. Instead of hitting the perfectly pitched baseballs, we decided to go for original and imaginative ideas. Some of those might cue you to a good idea. You never know. So, good for us. Oh, and oops, almost forgot, this is the last episode in this first series. If you want more, go directly to episode 1 or to your favorite topics and hit the big PLAY button. Do not pass GO. As we wrap up this series, a big shout of thanks to our listeners wherever you are in the world. We’ve enjoyed meeting you here on your entrepreneurial journey and we hope this series helped your progress on that journey. All the best with your ventures. Be well and prosper. Doug and Glenn
Transcript
Glenn Suart 0:00
Here’s what I would do if I was – especially next door – I would put up a sign saying, World’s 2nd Best Pizza. No wait.
Doug Ross 0:22
Welcome to Conversations on Startups, a podcast brought to you by Douglas Ross, author of the book, Spark Click Go: How to Bring Your Creative Business Idea to Life, and Glenn Suart, of Today’s Great Idea, a radio series featuring over 300 origin stories of businesses, brands and inventions that have changed the culture. Welcome to today’s conversation.
Doug Ross 0:45
Hey, Glenn, how ya doing?
Glenn Suart 0:47
I am fine, Doug. It is a beautiful day in Calgary. How about you in Boston?
Doug Ross 0:51
Yeah, I’m in Boston. It’s a great day here. So looking forward to this conversation on standing out. So important. As we mentioned, I think at the tail end of our last conversation, that in a world of plenty, and plenty of options, it’s more and more important to stand out. And so we thought we would dedicate this our… our last episode in this season, to standing out. So what do you think, [Glenn], standing out? How do you do it? You got any ideas on this one, Glenn?
Glenn Suart 1:25
Oh, I have lots of ideas. But it is such a critical thing for anybody in any business. It’s like thinking about running an internet business these days. That’s the first thing you got to think about. How do you stand out when there’s so many other websites out there?
Doug Ross 1:40
Yeah, yeah, no, it’s a huge problem when you think of the millions of websites that are out there [and] new ones coming on. This would apply to books as well. Movies. [Yeah]. Certain products, of course, restaurants, lots of things. So big need to stand out. Okay, so let’s say you’re a little guy, you’re a startup, and you want to break through. You want to make it in the attention economy [Yep], How do we do it? What kind of things can people do?
Glenn Suart 2:13
This is only a 20 minute episode, we don’t have the seven hours that it probably would take. However, I do think, to stand out, you have to think about what other people are doing, and maybe not do what they’re doing. That’s what I find. One way to stand out, as you did… is you wrote a book, Spark Click Go to help stand out from other consultants. I did a radio series that’s different than what other consultants do [Today’s Great Idea]. So those are simple ways of doing stuff. Other ways are just being… you know… if you know the book Positioning, Guerilla Marketing, it’s about positioning. And it’s like, be number one in your own category, type of thing. That’s one of the things I always try to think about. How do you get somewhere? So you advertise, for example, where other people don’t advertise. That’s a way of standing out, You have a unique name. That’s the [a] way of standing up [out]. Those are just a couple of things off the top of my head. Anything that jumps out of your mind?
Doug Ross 3:11
I think those are all good ideas and I could pick up on on any of those. Yeah, so thanks for mentioning my book. In there, I mentioned a couple of things. So, I suggest that people try to do something original with their business idea, which is a very high bar, if you think about it, but still worth striving for. If you can’t do something truly original, at least be imaginative with what you do. So have a different twist on it, something like that. Another thing that that I suggest in there [the book] is to bring yourself into the business, because We are all individuals. You’ve seen that movie Life of Brian?
Glenn Suart 3:53
One of my favorites. Yep.
Doug Ross 3:55
So, you remember that scene? He’s up on the window there, Brian is, the Messiah they’re all following, You are all individuals, he says to the crowd, and everybody in the crowd says We are all individuals. I love it. But anyway, my point is we are all unique, and so if we bring some expression of ourselves to our business, to the definition of the business, to the branding around the business, to the values that we embed in and live with in our business, we can make that stand out I think because we are all unique. So, those are some points that I… that I picked up in… in the book… or I write about in the book. I think also if you can be the first in any area, that’s great like think… tell me the name, Glenn – skill testing question – of the first sheep that was cloned?
Glenn Suart 4:55
Dolly.
Doug Ross 4:56
Excellent, excellent job. What was the name of the second one?
Glenn Suart 5:00
No clue.
Doug Ross 5:02
Okay, zero for one.
Glenn Suart 5:05
That’s right.
Doug Ross 5:06
Now I would do it with astronauts too. It used to be that way too. And everybody remembers Neil Armstrong’s name, and it took a while before anyone could name Buzz Aldrin. But the point is, if you can, be first in an area. Kind of fits with your… your thought about leading a category. [Yep] if you can be first, that’s great. If you can be first and only, that’s amazing.
Glenn Suart 5:29
That’s exactly what that positioning argument is about, be the first in a category.
Ben 5:35
You’re listening to Conversations on Startups with Doug and Glenn. Thanks for joining us.
Glenn Suart 5:43
So, I got a story for you.
Doug Ross 5:45
Okay, great.
Glenn Suart 5:45
You know, it’s always about you know, stuff. So, it’s a story about these two guys, Shoults and Woodruff. Right out of the movies where one of the heroes hopes to build one thing and ends up doing something totally unexpected and crazy and memorable. So here’s the pitch. Shoults and Woodruff are real estate partners, and they’ve gone to build this big giant real estate development in the hills overlooking their city. Now, the lots are very large, and the houses are kind of upscale, so they thought advertising would be it [important in order to sell the homes] so they built this sign. But it’s not just any sign, it was a crazy big sign. 50 feet tall, 4000 lights. You could not miss this real estate development from anywhere. And they just expected the sign to be up for 18 months, you know, while they were selling all the units, but then something totally unexpected happened. And that was the sign took on a life of its own, became a tourist attraction. Eventually, the city and the Chamber of Commerce took it over and they actually dropped four letters of the original thirteen letters in the sign to better represent the area. And I can see a smile on your face, you probably know what sign I’m talking about?
Doug Ross 6:51
Well, the most famous sign that I can think of is the Hollywood sign, is it that one?
Glenn Suart 7:00
Ding, ding, ding, exactly. And it was actually called Hollywoodland.
Doug Ross 7:05
Hollywoodland? Okay.
Glenn Suart 7:06
And it was a real estate development. But you can sort of see that they wanted to stand out, and obviously they were successful, making that whole area very wealthy. It was already upscale but that’s a… literally let’s stand out from every other place in the world. And it took on a life of its own, that’s great. But it worked. And so being… you use the word imaginative earlier, and I think that really is a powerful word. You don’t have to be like anybody else. And any… a small guy could be just as powerful as a big guy, if you’re just imaginative and [you] use the right things. One of the good things about standing out is that if your competitors are larger than you, they typically have a vested interest in their own brands, and it’s harder for them to actually change the ship to do certain things as they get bigger. Whereas when you’re smaller, like most of us, you can try stuff out and be more nimble. And I think it works.
Doug Ross 8:05
Yeah, I think so. And you can you can stand out against the big guy. Reminds me of the 1984 commercial that Apple did famously. They were a lot smaller than IBM at the time, of course [yeah] things have changed now. But yeah, I’m glad you agree being imaginative is a good way to do it. I’ve got a couple other ideas, Glenn to [sure] give to our audience here. So see what you think about these. So, one of the things you can do is do something difficult. And if you can do something difficult, solve a problem that nobody else has solved, that’s going to be extremely helpful for you. So one example would be it’s, it’s being turned into businesses actually, and not without dispute, but gene editing was very… it was sought after, How could we do this efficiently? But it wasn’t until this Cas9 [protein for selective targeting and cleaving of DNA segments] technique was brought out and that we have the ability to really slice and dice genes that we have now with… with CRISPR – that’s the innovation that was there. But the point is because it was a problem that was hard to solve, lots of people’s attention naturally went to it when the problem was solved. So I think that’s an extremely good way to stand out. I think another way of doing it is to be outrageous, but I don’t really recommend this. If you think about outrageous things that have happened now… this is the Roger Stone School [yeah] of ridiculousness and doing outrageous things at the cost of other people, individuals or groups. So that’s a bit crazy. Will Smith did something outrageous recently. People in some of their dress if you think about performers, like Lady Gaga, she could have been seen as just any other singer or any other business, but she chose to do something really kind of outrageous, not offensive to people, I don’t think, but really stood out and did that by costume and makeup and colors. So you can do this with your business, with your branding, your signage. Do something that’s different from the other guy [who is] around. Be the Purple Cow, as Seth Godin would say, [Yeah]. But not just being a difference without a distinction [or is it the other way around, distinction without a difference?] you got to have, Okay, you’re different, okay, great – now give me the goods.
Glenn Suart 10:37
Yes, you need attention, and you have to deliver… it has to deliver on your brand, or what you’re about, that’s critical. If you… if you pull off a heist, and it’s not part of your business, not really a good thing if you’re in jail, [right]. You got attention but that’s not what you want, right? [Ya, no.] You know, somebody who is very famous for doing stuff, and I think everybody knows his name because of it, is Richard Branson, Virgin records [yeah] and airlines and the whole thing. And by doing those sort of stunts, the balloon stuff and parachuting and a whole bunch of other things, he positioned himself and his brand as forward thinking, doing interesting things. It really worked. Red Bull is another group that uses those kinds of events to sort of be inspiring. So it comes back to being imaginative, thinking about what your brand is and doing something that will attract attention in a good way at the end of the day. Yes, bad news is good too. But any publicity is good publicity, of course. But you got to be careful that it’s sustainable. You look at someone like… you mentioned Lady Gaga, the predecessor to her, of course, in many ways, was Madonna. And we grew up with Madonna being… changing her looks and appearance multiple times over [during] the 80s and 90s, and then sort of fading out a little bit because she’s getting older and there’s other newer, interesting artists. But of course, she’s trying to make a comeback now but it’s kind of hard for her to stand out in this world the way she is today. So there’s lessons there, too. The thing is though, she is getting attention, not nearly as much as she used to, but she is getting attention. She’s still an impressive brand developer for sure.
Doug Ross 12:23
Hey podcast listeners, we’re gonna take a short break now. If you’re enjoying the show, feel free to invite your friends, remember to subscribe, and if you want to help spread the word leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. Each episode of Conversations on Startups focuses on a single topic. If you want to comment on something you’ve heard on the podcast, or suggest a topic for us to cover in a future episode, send an email to: go@todaysgreatidea.com or douglas@sparkclickgo.com. Glenn and I appreciate you and hope you find our uncut and unrehearsed stories, perspectives, and tips helpful. Speaking of helpful stuff, let’s pick up where we left off.
Doug Ross 13:08
Well makes me think too, that things do change over time. It used to be you could stand out by being free, for example [Yes]. Think of a lot of the software that we use – if you’re free, you stand out. And then it became everybody did that and all of these apps were supported by advertising. And now everybody’s doing that, so it’s not distinctive. So, what worked for you or for Madonna 20 or 30 years ago is not necessarily going to work now. You may need to do something opposite. So business model is a good example. If everyone has the same business model, maybe you can do something different. So for example, online advertising, hey, why not… person to person advertising classified ads types of things… Why don’t we sell those using an auction and create eBay? That’s going to stand out. Yeah, it’s online. That’s one thing that’s distinctive, perhaps, maybe not unique, but this auction format is unique. And so your business model, if it’s different, can I think be a way to stand out as well. So many levers here if you really step back and think about it. What do you think about entering – if you’re a startup – entering contests, winning awards? What do you think about that as an approach?
Glenn Suart 14:35
I have mixed feelings about that. And, I think they are good to go into because it certainly adds credibility and awareness from other people. Absolutely. And that you can win some cash or services. Like it’s worthwhile to some degree. But you got to go into it eyes wide open again… that there’s a lot of effort that has to go in to doing those things, and that’s effort that could be spent elsewhere in the business. So you have to be thoughtful about whether the outcome that you’re hoping for is worth the effort. A lot of cases it is. A lot of cases it isn’t. So, that’s why I’m sort of mixed on that. Your thoughts?
Doug Ross 14:35
Well, I guess winning them is what’s really good, of course. But you’re, that’s quite practical to think about the effort that goes in there, and then the opportunity costs, especially if you don’t win this thing. If you don’t [win] then you’re quiet about it, if you do win you can tout it everywhere – winner of such and such an award. I see this quite a lot among entrepreneurs where they’ve got… they will put that out there and they’ll say, Hey, we won this award, or we were accepted into this accelerator, as we’ve talked about before, something like that.
Glenn Suart 15:44
Third party credibility, yes.
Doug Ross 15:46
Yeah, third party credibility through either an award or… people do this a lot with influencers. If you can be recognized by… by someone who’s well known in your field, who says, Hey, this company’s doing something interesting, that’s fantastic. Yeah, anything third party, any of that sort of social credibility, you will stand out. If you… if you can get Madonna, even who’s not at the top of her game to say, Hey, this is a business worth looking at… all sorts of good ideas. There’s this pizza place in Arizona called Pizza Bianco. And they won, well the restaurateur, won the James Beard Award for Outstanding Restaurateur of 2022. And you can imagine what this has done for the business. [Oh, ya] It’s incredible. [A} friend of mine went there and waited four and a half hours – this is supposed to be the best pizza in the world. Which reminds me of Elf, by the way. Remember, he comes down from the North Pole – I think it was coffee, Best Coffee in the World. Congratulations. You know, all this stuff [Exactly]. But if you win something like a James Beard Award, it can really bring in the crowds. Four hour wait, and I’m sorry to say that the reports on this pizza did not live up to world’s best pizza, but it’s getting people in the door.
Glenn Suart 17:13
That’s right, so maybe if you were another pizza operation… Here’s what I would do if I was – especially next door – I would put up a sign saying, World’s 2nd Best Pizza. No wait.
Doug Ross 17:30
I love that. That is very clever.
Glenn Suart 17:33
There you go. Take advantage of it.
Doug Ross 17:34
Yeah, that’s a great idea. Second best on the world stage, well, it would be quite good.
Glenn Suart 17:41
And you think about that, like in the car… car rental business, that’s exactly what Avis did. At the time, Hertz back in the 70s and 80s, Hertz was the number one auto rental company in the world. And they position themselves – because they’re a different car company, they position themselves as number… we’re number two, we try harder [yeah]… [it] worked and resonated with so many people that it boosted their business dramatically. So yeah, sometimes to stand out, is to play off other people.
Doug Ross 18:13
Yeah, playing off that number one person, you know, that’s, that’s a great way, especially… they’re bigger, and all of that and tie it to some sort of benefit. We try harder means that your service is going to be better. So, I think that’s… that’s a really good approach – if you can do that, it makes perfect sense to me… you can stand out doing that.
Glenn Suart 18:33
Absolutely.
Doug Ross 18:34
So, I love it. I think the… part of that is owning what is real about you, or what is authentic. So in that case, Avis was not number one, they were number two, and they owned it, and they turned it into a benefit. So that’s, that’s really great. People know, what is real and what’s not real [Yeah] so, might as well own it. Who else has done this, famously? There’ve been some famous people lately that have done this, and they’re criticized, maybe they’re trolled online, that kind of thing, and they own it. And they can really rule the day. They can get the attention by… by doing that and working with it. So, lots of great ideas. And I, you know, if I think… if I think back a little bit to some of the topics we’ve covered before, like design, that’s one way to stand out too – unique designs. I think about all the jewelers that are out there or jewelry designers, there aren’t many that I would be able to say, Oh, that’s so and so – other people would, it’s not my area – but David Yurman, I do know. And the designs there are distinctive, so you can win by design as well if you do something that’s really quite distinctive in the area, and obviously people need to like it [your design style] too. But design [is] something that we covered in one of our previous episodes and many other places we’ve… we’ve talked about that. I think here though, we really wanted to dedicate some time to this [standing out] because we think it’s so important for people to be more imaginative in this particular area… to get attention.
Ali 20:13
You’re listening to Conversations on Startups with Doug and Glenn, merci pour nous avoir joindre.
Glenn Suart 20:21
Well, if anybody who’s listening has some great ideas that they should want to share with us, or want some help figuring out ways of standing out, feel free to reach out to either one of us.
Doug Ross 20:31
Absolutely. So anything else on this then, Glenn? Do you think we covered it fairly well?
Glenn Suart 20:38
I think we have.
Doug Ross 20:38
Very good. Well, so we are going to then wrap up this particular episode, and also, we’re wrapping up our first series here or season of Conversations on Startups. We’ve had a really great time. I really have enjoyed these conversations with you, Glenn. I’m very thankful to our listeners out there. It’s been terrific. We don’t have a new episode to announce for you this particular time, unlike most of the wrap-ups of our episodes.
Glenn Suart 21:09
Yep. So, we’ll have to do it the next time. And Doug, it has been a pleasure. This has been a really great first season. Trying stuff out ourselves. Again, we’ve lived a lot of what we talked about. Trying to stand out, be a little different market differently, you know, some success, some failure, but if you don’t try, you don’t succeed. So, it’s been a good first series and I’m looking forward to series two with you, and we’ll go from there. I’m Glenn in Calgary.
Doug Ross 21:35
And, I’m Doug in Boston. Thanks for another good Conversations on Startups. We’ll see you next time.
Doug Ross 21:52
Conversations on Startups is a production of Glenn Suart and Douglas Ross. We hope you’re having fun listening but mostly that you take action on your business idea. For more inspiration visit our websites: todaysgreatidea.com and sparkclickgo.com. Another episode of Conversations on Startups will drop soon, or is already available to binge. Thanks for joining us, and remember to subscribe and invite your friends. See ya next time!
Transcribed by https://otter.ai