Episode 1: Persistance
Our first episode! What is the one skill that every successful entrepreneur has? Persistence. The ability to keep going when the odds are stacked against you. In this episode, Glenn and Doug talk about how important being persistent is and share some great examples to inspire you.
Transcript
Glenn Suart 0:00
Two hundred times getting turned down before getting success. That is the skill set you want, because investors value that.
Doug Ross 0:22
Welcome to Conversations on startups, a podcast brought to you by Douglas Ross, author of the book Spark Click Go How to Bring your Creative Business Idea to Life. And Glenn Suart of Today’s Great Idea, a radio series featuring over 300 origin stories of businesses, brands and inventions that have changed the culture. Welcome to today’s conversation.
Today we are going to talk about persistence. What is it? Why is it important, Glenn? Persistence when it comes to startups? What comes to mind?
Glenn Suart 0:55
I think persistence is universal, whether it’s for somebody doing a startup in the US, like you or in Canada, like where I am, it means just to keep going when there’s hurdles in front of you, and not give up. That’s the way I take it typically, what do you feel about it?
Doug Ross 1:15
Yeah, and thanks for that intro, because I forgot. My name is Doug Ross. I’m author of a book called Spark Click Go, a Canadian, and living in America and currently embedded with a startup in the diagnostic space and had a lot of other business experience. And Glenn and I go, go back to our time together at school in London, Ontario. So I forgot to do that intro. Glenn, why don’t you say a few words about yourself? And we’ll, we’ll come back to that. What is persistence?
Glenn Suart 1:48
And I’m Glenn Suart. And I help people start businesses in Canada and elsewhere, and I have a radio series called Today’s Great Idea to get people to – not unlike Doug with his book – with the radio series is to get people to take action with their great ideas. Because everyone’s got them, but very few people do stuff with them. And that’s what we’re hoping both of us, I guess, are trying to help people to do stuff. And like you, I’m working with different clients right now, and also embedded in in a consumer retail startup that’s gone from zero to several million dollars in sales during the pandemic in the last year and – definition of persistence, right there, is the client, and I’ll talk about that in a few minutes, maybe. But I think the key thing that I’m interested in hearing what you got to say too, about persistence, because I know what I deal with, with clients, you must have some really interesting stories about some of the clients or people you’ve talked to where persistence really matter.
Doug Ross 2:50
Yeah, well, I have and I agree, it’s this important element to a lot of human endeavors, of course, business being one of them. And there’s this term in the startup world, which is pivot. And I think it’s related somewhat to persistence. Because if you’re persisting with an idea, by definition, you’re not pivoting per se. And I’ve been part of early stage companies in the software space, and I’ve seen this pivot button hit a little bit too early, and in one case, I’m thinking about right now, it was hit a couple times within the span of, I would say, six months, something like that. And so we had this original vision for the company was helping hosts on Airbnb, price their properties nightly, using data for demand and supply, and then it shifted to an informational service, and then it shifted to a consulting business. And it’s instructive because it has a lot of impact on the employees on the customers that you’ve been working hard to gain, and you’re sort of starting over again. So I really think this concept of persistence is a critical one in the startup game, because it’s hard to get from that A to B that you just mentioned about with your company. It’s tough to do. And sometimes you got to stick with those obstacles as they come into your path.
Bridget 4:18
You’re listening to conversations on startups with Doug and, Glen, thanks for joining us. Let’s get back to the show.
Glenn Suart 4:26
Well, you know, what I liked about that story you just told me is that persistence – what I get out of that is that – persistence is not about doing the same thing over and over again. It means that you keep going when the hurdles come up. So when that company had that issue, it didn’t just say, oh, this is not going to work, we can’t make enough money from this and just gave up, it did try to pivot and that is part of persistence is to continue to pursue the vision and move forward. You don’t want to just give up, and there are times when you have to give up, I get that. But when you can, you want to create something new, and something magical can happen if you just keep going. That’s what I like about it.
Doug Ross 5:11
I think yeah, if you if you keep going something magical could happen. By definition, if you’re trying to do something original or imaginative, which I think are two important things to do with any new idea, it’s going to be difficult, just by definition. And so cracking that nut, as it were, can be magical. I like the way you phrase that. And that magic means that you’ve maybe solved a problem that nobody else has for another, you know, for a customer or figured out a way to deliver something that everybody wants at a 10th of the previous costs – something like that is difficult to do,
Glenn Suart 5:53
I find in researching a lot of these stories, because there’s a lot of great stories about people being persistent out there, and we’ve talked offline about some of them, I can think of three great female centric stories about people, yeah, And maybe the one to share that, you know, people might be aware might not be aware of is the story of Tabby. And, you know, Tabby was this, and still is, has her husband and they’re struggling to get by, they live in the northeast of the US and they live in this old trailer, they can’t afford a phone, you know, she works at Dunkin Donuts, he’s a high school teacher. And, you know, while she is focused on raising the kids, he is writing short stories and magazine articles to earn a few extra bucks for groceries and to fix the car. And you know, she actually had two great ideas. The first one was, you know, her husband comes home, he’s pretty excited, he’s got a possible promotion, that would give him a little extra money, but she says no, you know, he’s really good at writing she thinks and so he should carry on doing that. And her second idea was, you know, she comes home one day and sees these crumpled up pieces of paper and then in the wastepaper basket and says, What is this? And he goes, well you know, its and attempt at a novel, I don’t think is very good. Well, you know, she thought they were and said, finish it, you know, again, and she was persistent with him and he kept going of course too – he’s pretty persistent. Then they tried to get in front of 30 publishers, they just kept sending it out to people. And this is back in the 70s. Right? And this is like, this is not internet stuff, we can mass send it out You got to send it out to everybody and mail it and..
DOUG ROSS 7:41
Lick the envelope.
Glenn Suart 7:43
..oh, my God, yeah, that’s persistence alone. And, you know, one publisher finally said, yeah, l like the story we’ll give you a small advance. And the reason we the story resonates with me is because the rest is history. 40 years later, Tabby’s husband, you know, is one of the most successful writers ever, having sold over 350 million copies of his stories, and they’ve been turned into movies and television shows, and Shawshank Redemption.
Doug Ross 8:14
There you go. Stephen King, I love it,
Glenn Suart 8:19
Stephen King, like if Tabby hadn’t been persisted in telling her telling her husband to stay on track and keep writing, and if he hadn’t kept writing, either one of those things, we would be missing a lot of great content that we all enjoy today. So that’s / I just I get thrilled when I hear these kinds of stories, because I realized that it’s not just famous people just being famous. They’re just like you and I. But they were persistent about doing something and they pursued an idea. There’s no guarantee there was going to be success. But they were focused, and that helped. So that’s why I like the story.
Doug Ross 9:00
Well, I really like that story for a lot of reasons, Glenn. It’s persistence of the entrepreneur, or in this case, the creative individual, and the importance of having support from the loved ones right around you. I’ve talked to a lot of entrepreneurs, and one of the reasons they don’t pursue an idea is because of the opportunity cost. And that comes in the form of a paying job that has no salary and is super regular, and the kids are young. So these are very real issues for people. So I really liked that [story] because it shows the importance of having whoever it is that is your loved one, fully on board with whatever you’re doing. In this case, Tabitha, was it the Tabitha? Yeah. You know, she was even more so than on board. She was the one saying hey, you know, this is a real gift that you ought to pursue and gave them the space to do it and maybe a kick in the butt to do.
Glenn Suart 10:03
Exactly, and a perspective that you don’t always get.
Doug Ross 10:06
Hey podcast listeners, we’re going to take a short break now. If you’re enjoying the show, feel free to invite your friends. Remember to subscribe. And, if you want to help spread the word leave us a review on Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast app. Each episode of Conversations on Startups focuses on a single topic, if you want to comment on something you’ve heard on the podcast or suggest a topic for us to cover in a future episode, send an email to go@todaygreatidea.com or douglas@sparkclickgo.com. Glenn and I appreciate you and hope you find our uncut and unrehearsed stories, perspectives and tips helpful. Speaking of helpful stuff, let’s pick up where we left off.
Glenn Suart 10:52
I occasionally run into people who’ve got an idea and they of course say that all their family really likes it, and their friends really like it. And they go after it, but even though they’re pursuing it, the friends and family haven’t actually given them critically good advice. They want to be supportive. There almost beeing too supportive. Yeah. Isn’t that a great idea? Keep going? Well, yeah, but maybe it still has a big hole in the middle. And so when we’re saying Be persistent, I think we’re also saying, Don’t be stupid. You got / it’s like a dog with a bone, but if there’s something that’s not quite working, you got to fix that. No matter how many times you you hit the door, if you don’t figure out how to open the door, you know, it’s not going to work to some degree. So persistence is is a very challenging subjec, but it does mean, and I agree with you, you’ve got to you got to pursue something, you got to have it in ya, and you need the support, I agree with you. I couldn’t have done what I’ve done with my wife. I’m sure the same thing with you?
Doug Ross 12:01
Yeah, absolutely. And, friends and family, you know, I think your, your immediate spouse is the most important but friends and family – they can offer support and encouragement, and sometimes, you know, a little bit of seed money, you know, that happens. But I’m with you, Glen, they’re not the ones for the for the critical feedback, and they’re not the key group for you to determine whether your idea, as rough as it may be, is really bringing value. For that you have to go to customers, maybe customers that are looking for something on the edge, people that you had in mind when you came up with this idea, you saw they had a need, a problem to solve whatever it is, you really have to go to that group. And sometimes depending on the business you’re in, you’ve got to get, you’ve got to meet certain standards. I work in med tech. So if my device is not safe and effective, as proven by a third party, you know, I’m dead in the water. But any business there are standards that you have to meet. If you’re in the restaurant business, you have to run a hygienic operation, you know, and you have to meet licensing regulations and things like that. So I think that’s great. Another story of persistence. I don’t have the full background like you did on on Mr. King there, but the basics of it are a woman who created a really she’s on the frontier of the retail fashion business. And she started with, with women as customers, and she came up with this idea that would blend big data with convenience of at home delivery, and therefore try-on as in sampling these clothes. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, ability for customers. And this was a space that she didn’t feel was really being done well. You know, you could order anything online but that’s not the same as having a sort of a recommendation engine. Yeah. Alongside saying, hey, maybe you would like this piece of clothing you like that one before. It’s kind of like bringing Netflix’s recommendation engine into the fashion business. And, where she was really persistent was on the fundraising end of things because she would come in and she had actually some venture capital in her background. She would be pitching her business idea. And as she quotes in an article, I read on her, someone told her, you know, I love the finances here, the economics, but I, you know, I really don’t like the fashion business. And she just got this left and right. And she just stuck with this. She believed in her idea, you know, she was getting traction with it, and low and behold, she did get funding. And she [Katrina Lake] is a major, you know, business owner now and the business is called Stitch Fix, which you may have heard of. Yeah. And so another story of persistence, this time with respect to fundraising. And I have to tell you, this is another big area where persistence really pays off.
Glenn Suart 14:56
It is the the story , you know, Howard Schultz and for Starbucks, there’s a great story there multiple stories, but one is him pitching it 200 times before. Two hundred times getting turned down before getting success. That is the skill set you want, because investors also value that. They value that somebody is not going to give up when there’s a problem, and just, you know, oh well, that’s it, if they want to put money and they want to put money behind somebody who is going to keep going and figure out stuff, that’s who you that’s who you want in a partner if you’re gonna start a business – you can’t underestimate persistence. So I guess the conclusion, in summary, you know, for the people who are thankfully listening to this today, what I think persistence is, as you asked, right off, the top is taking action and keep going when things don’t make sense. But look, that’s a skill set that you should be demonstrating to other people that, that you have that within you, and, you know, obviously you can’t fake it, you got to you got to really be it, live it. But if you have that that’s the skill set, you should be showing other people that you are persistent, you don’t give up. That is like gold to investors. So that’s why we’re talking about in my mind a little bit today. What are your thoughts?
Doug Ross 16:21
I think that that’s a group the investors as a group, you mentioned partners, I think that’s the case. If you’ve got employees, you know, early employees, the same sort of thing, they want to see someone who’s gonna going to be persistent is going to fight the battle, day in and day out, as long as like you say, you’re getting, you’re making some inroads, you know, you’re doing some experiments, and you’re getting better at what you’re doing. You can see this vision that you’ve had, turning into a real success and returning to you on your efforts.
Din 16:55
You’re listening to conversations on startups with Doug and, Glen, thanks for joining us. Let’s get back to the show.
Doug Ross 17:03
One of the questions I have is, you know, we’ve gotten these sort of famous examples, we’ve just talked about – how though, does the person starting out or thinking about starting out, how do they gain persistence? If it’s not kind of a natural trait for them?
Glenn Suart 17:22
That’s a great question. I don’t know if it is a natural trait, I haven’t quite thought of it that way. I know with me personally, there are certain things that I pursue, because I care about them enough. Like the radio series took a long time to get off the ground, still a long way to go, but it’s been relatively successful in many ways. But I was persistent, I kept going when people were saying, okay, not interested, you know, thanks very much, etc, etc. That, you know, now I feel like I’ve gotten to a place where it’s good. But I don’t do that in everything. Other parts of my life. I’m not as persistent about stuff – like gardening.
Doug Ross 18:05
Even though you may have tried,
Glenn Suart 18:06
Oh, the grass is too long. I can’t cut the grass, you know, so I give up pretty quickly when it comes to that. But you know what I mean, it’s like, I think to answer your question, I think we all have it probably within us. But you’ve got to be committed enough, or care enough about that one thing to move it forward.
Doug Ross 18:30
I love that, Glenn. It makes total sense to me. I think a lot of people could relate to that. And it implies that people need to, in a sense, listen to themselves, because there’s a small voice that’s either saying something to you, or, or it’s, you know, when you have a free moment, you’re naturally gravitating over to your computer, or some something related to that interest that you have. And it’s natural, and maybe there’s even a thread through your life that you can look back on and say, you know, this is something that I’ve always been interested in, maybe not, but I like that idea. And I love the thought to that it’s no person is committed to / passionate about all things. You know, I think there’s probably psychological terms for that, you know, and these folks, just how would they exist? There are so many avenues one can take in life. It’s picking one that really, really resonates with the core. I think that’s a really great, great comment, Glenn. So I think we’ve covered a lot of things. We talked about what persistence was – that sticking to it when the going is tough. The benefits of it, showing to investors, your partners, your customers, that you have this persistence in you and that’s going to build trust and reliability a lot a lot of benefits. I agree to this is a topic that could go in a lot of different directions and I hope we come back to it or maybe a related one in a future episode. But I think / what if we got up next week? Glenn?
Glenn Suart 20:09
Well it’s a good question. I don’t think we’ve actually finalized. One thing I find that interesting is an episode. If we don’t do it next week, it’ll be certainly one of the ones coming up is, luck. You know, everyone thinks that, oh, I could do that, or whatever and large times they can, but sometimes it is just being in the right place at the right time. And that / how does that affect what you’re doing? And I think sometimes luck is just natural. Sometimes I think it is manufactured and you make your own luck. We didn’t talk about it today so much with with the persistence, though, it’s irrelevant, but my partner on the cooler business – we sell coolers in Canada, we import from Asia, that we design here in Canada, and we’re now expanding into drinkware etc. We thought at the beginning, well, why would anybody buy these coolers, and it wasn’t that it was persistent, we just happen to be lucky that there was an opportunity that literally sat in front of our face. And Sean being a great salesperson, my partner, took advantage of it because he was in the right place at the right time with the right product. And that’s turned into a multimillion dollar business in a year. And I would never have thought, I feel lucky, being part of that, but it also manufactures luck. I’m talking about next week’s episode already.
Doug Ross 21:37
This is a preview folks.
Glenn Suart 21:38
Exactly. And I manufactured luck by by putting myself out there to talk to lots of different people. And nine out of 10 things may not move forward for a whole bunch of different reasons, not necessarily related to the entrepreneur or would-be entrepreneur, but by having so many shots at it the luck worked out for me to get partnered into this particular business, which I would never have otherwise met Sean probably. So, I think luck is a big thing to talk about. And maybe that’s what we’ll talk about next week.
Doug Ross 22:21
Conversations on startups is a production of Glenn Suart and Douglas Ross. We hope you’re having fun listening, but mostly that you take action on your business idea. For more inspiration, visit our websites todaysgreatidea.com and sparkclickco.com. Another episode of Conversations on Startups will drop soon or is already available to binge. Thanks for joining us and remember to subscribe and invite your friends. See you next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai